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What does postpartum depression really look like—and why is it so often misunderstood? In this powerful episode, Dr. Kimberly Scipione joins MOB hosts Suzy Shaw and Cheryl Bohn to break the silence around maternal mental health. From the emotional weight of birth experiences to the unspoken struggles of bonding and identity, this conversation tackles the realities of postpartum depression with honesty and hope. Tune in for expert insights, practical advice, and a heartfelt reminder that no mom should go through it alone.
Meet Dr. Kimberly Scipione – Licensed Counselor, Mom of 5, and Postpartum Advocate
Dr. Kimberly Scipione brings both professional expertise and personal insight to the Mothers of Boys Survival Guide podcast. A licensed professional counselor with a doctorate in psychology and education, Dr. Scipione has spent years supporting women through life’s most challenging transitions. As a mother of five, she understands firsthand the emotional rollercoaster of motherhood. In this episode, she sheds light on postpartum depression—what it looks like, how it feels, and how to support the moms who are silently struggling.
The information provided in this podcast is for general informational purposes only and does not constitute professional advice. Consult with a qualified professional for specific guidance.
Postpartum Depression: A Psychologist’s Insights into Maternal Mental Health
Cheryl Bohn: Welcome to the Mothers of Boys Survival Guide podcast. I’m Cheryl Bond and I’m joined by co-host Suzy Shaw.
Suzy Shaw: Hi Cheryl. A new mother of a baby boy suggested this topic to help her and other moms better understand the healing process from childbirth, which is a very big life event for sure.
Cheryl Bohn: One of the biggest for sure. Last week we spoke with a labor and delivery discharge nurse about how moms can prepare for life at home with a newborn and she shared practical tips for healing and sleeping and just overall adjusting.
And this week we’re diving into a topic that really doesn’t get talked about enough, even though one in seven mothers are affected by it, which is postpartum depression. Our guest today is Dr. Kimberly Schipione, a licensed professional counselor with a doctorate in psychology and education. She has extensive experience working with women and is also the mother of five.
Today she’s going to help us better understand what postpartum depression looks like, how it impacts new moms, and most importantly, how to get help or support for someone going through it. So welcome Dr. Schipione.
Dr. Kimberly Scipione: Thank you so much.
This is such a huge topic. I get a lot of referrals from OBGYNs and psychiatrists and PCPs with people that have never been to any type of psychotherapy before and after childbirth. And there’s a variety of things we can discuss as we head there. Yes.
Suzy Shaw: So Dr. Kim, can we just start with the basics? How would you describe postpartum depression to someone who’s never experienced it, and especially men and spouses, right? And what are the most common symptoms or patterns you see with moms struggling with PPD?
Dr. Kimberly Scipione: I think the statistic is one in seven, and I think that’s probably true to meet the diagnostic criteria for postpartum depression. However, I would say that every single woman goes through postpartum depression to some degree. I think to meet diagnostic criteria that you’re needing intensive intervention, that’s probably where the one in seven, and I’d like to normalize that and say that every single woman, you will experience some type of postpartum depression.
Does it meet diagnostic criteria? No. Could it be considered maybe an adjustment disorder with anxiety and depression? Sure. I anticipate that you’re going to have some of this. So some of the signs and symptoms we’re looking for, and I think that’s where we have to normalize this.
Social media, it’s great for many things, but I think they only show the pictures of the moms and their cute little babies, like with the big flowery headbands on, or these cute little boys with like, you know, little newspaper boy, the old fashioned newspaper boy hats, like looking, I could send you a couple of mine.
So darn cute, and I think that we think that it’s all like that all the time.
Instead, we have fluids coming from every orifice of our body that we weren’t anticipating, that we aren’t sleeping. Our hormones are an absolute mess, and I also think that we live in a culture and society where you’re supposed to look a certain way, and it takes a very long time for your body to get back to pre-baby weight. And I think that we’re hard on ourselves for that, and we’re embarrassed, and so because we don’t look like the other people on social media, we’re not talking to anybody about it.
But when we start to look for intensive diagnostic concerns, we’re looking at, you know, depressed most of the day, kind of lying there, not wanting to eat, obviously sleeping too much, not sleeping at all, change in appetite. Psychomotor is a big one, too. We have, you know, a slowness, like our body’s not moving like it once did, a real lack of energy and fatigue, feelings of worthlessness, feeling, a lot of times women can often feel guilt and shame because they’re supposed to love and feel connected to this new creature.
And I say, well, if you got a new puppy, would you know when the puppy has to eat and sleep and use the restroom right away, and they’re like, no, I said, well, it’s no different than a baby. And they said, but it’s my own, and it’s different.
When we start to get really concerned is when we start to have some of the, either the suicidal thoughts or homicidal thoughts. And that is, and there’s psychosis that can sometimes happen with postpartum, but those are extreme cases.
Cheryl Bohn: Yeah, it’s really something because it, everybody, you know, you hear, oh, it’s supposed to be so joyful. It’s, it’s the most, you know, which, which there is a side that obviously is so joyful. But if you have a really difficult delivery and, you know, you’re in a lot of pain and recovery physically is really difficult. I think there can be a lot of guilt associated with, oh, I’m supposed to be happy because this is supposed to be the happiest time of my life. And you’re, but you’re recovering physically, you know, and, and it’s really difficult. So then you’re feeling like you should be feeling happier, you know.
Dr. Kimberly Scipione: Absolutely.
Cheryl Bohn: How soon after the birth can signs of postpartum depression appear?
Dr. Kimberly Scipione: Yeah, that’s a, that’s a great question, Cheryl. And I think that that’s also one of those misnomers. I think, you know, when I, when I use the word “manicness,| that is not meaning you’re bipolar and you are, you know, looking like the Hollywood movies, bipolar disorder. However, mania can kind of come in the first couple of weeks, if not months of, of after childbirth and then you can hit depression pretty quickly.
Like maybe you’re ecstatic, you’re over the moon excited, you’re not sleeping. Some people experience that and then they go into a deep depressive state.
It can happen anywhere from like the moment the child is born or it can happen within about, I think the statistical, the DSM is looking at, you have to present at least five or more of those symptoms that I listed in the beginning and it can come anywhere from birth to, I think it’s up to three to six months. So it can happen.
And some women don’t experience it till six months in, you know, everybody’s different. And I think there’s also a denial factor that goes in. And I think if you have other children, that can be good too, because you’re distracted by caring for multiple lives. And then you don’t have a moment to sleep and then you start to sleep and then you realize I’m not doing so well.
Suzy Shaw: Right. Right. I remember my first baby, the emotional roller coaster of having that baby and being in pain – for me, I had a level three episiotomy. I was in a lot of pain. I was leaking- it’s what I would call it. So I was crying, my boobs are leaking, everything’s leaking. I wasn’t used to leaking…
Dr. Kimberly Scipione: Every orifice, every orifice…
Suzy Shaw: So how long does it take to get back into normal? And you know, is that six months, two years? What do you think?
Dr. Kimberly Scipione: Well, okay, I’m going to, I’m coming from the clinical perspective of what I observe in the clinical setting. Sure. I’m going to, okay, so one of the big things I think people need to understand is when you started saying that you had to have the episiotomy and all of these other complications, I think that all contributes.
So I will tell you one thing I do see more than others, women that had a very difficult time conceiving and went through an IVF process, those women, I see them taking way longer to recover. And I believe the reason is, has to do with hormones and it, and honestly, Suzy and Cheryl, I can see it taking two, three years and there’s a trauma component to that because we’re supposed to- according to society and biology, we’re supposed to just be able to get pregnant.
Then, a lot of these women experience multiple miscarriages. A lot of these women can have traumatic births. Nobody planned on you having an episiotomy or a C-section. And there’s so many things that go into this. So when you ask the question, you know, when can you get back to normal? I think it’s all relevant to the pregnancy, what was happening in your life leading up to the pregnancy, what happened during the pregnancy, and what’s happening during delivery and post. And I think all those things are huge factors.
Suzy Shaw: And I guess if you had a second child, then you’re just hitting the reset button within that time period anyway.
Dr. Kimberly Scipione: Oh, 100%. And so I think that’s what, you know, I have a set of Irish twins and I think that was one of those moments in my life where it was like I didn’t, my body didn’t even have time to get back to any type of normalcy and here comes the next one, right? And that was kid number four. He was quite the surprise.
And so, you know, I, here I am pregnant with kid number four and I’ve got, you know, three other humans to care for at the time. And I was working full time and in graduate school.
Cheryl Bohn: Oh wow. I know you think everybody has a mom. How difficult can it be? Right. And it’s so difficult. And there can be so many complications. But you, you think, well, everybody has a mom. So, you know.
Dr. Kimberly Scipione: Well, I think that we’re the first generation of women in our age range that are actually talking about this stuff because I think there was a lot of shame around it. And even like when you think about menopause, like recently I was contacted to speak on menopause and I was like, well, I could talk to my experience. But I think we are coming up on a generation of people that are actually talking about these things.
And I think if our mothers had the opportunity to be more raw and more real and not, you know, air their dirty laundry, so to speak, that we would have had a deeper insight to what that’s really like.
Cheryl Bohn: I agree with you.
Suzy Shaw: I took a class on women’s history when I was in college. And this sort of information historically was in cookbooks. So I mean, just to double down on nobody was talking about it. It was sort of hidden, right? And slid into the cookbook. Cookbooks! Which I still remember all these years later.
Dr. Kimberly Scipione: And, you know, I think as you say that, I think about, you know, with postpartum, there’s this idea that you’re supposed to want to engage in intimacy with your partner post that six weeks when you get the green light. And how that probably wasn’t in the cookbook, Suzy?
Suzy Shaw: Oh, no. Yeah, that was, that’s a dangerous thought, right? Yeah, right. Especially after being sewed back up after an episiotomy.
Dr. Kimberly Scipione: Absolutely.
Cheryl Bohn: So is there anything else with the mother’s history that could be a risk factor? I know you talked about a few things, but is, I don’t know if there’s anything in the mother’s history or the family history that might?
Dr. Kimberly Scipione: Oh, absolutely. I think if you are, if you have a history of depression, a history of anxiety, it’s only going to magnify. I think one of the other things that’s really come up is, especially a lot of the women that had difficulty conceiving, they were told to get off of all of their SSRIs (Selective Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitors -a class of antidepressant medications) before they conceived.
And I just- I’m finishing up a fourth master’s degree in clinical psychopharmacology. And we spent an entire weekend talking about medications for women that are wanting to get pregnant, are pregnant and postpartum. And there was a huge debate in our class, like there are medications that can cause some birth defects. There are medications that can cause difficulty to the fetus. However, when you look at the big picture of that, if you have a mother who’s actively depressed and actively suicidal, it is more important for her mood to be stabilized than it is for the possible side effects of that. And that’s where the debate came in. Is it not?
The whole class, and these are all doctorate level people in the class or MDs, discussed that we felt that obviously it’s an ethical, moral discussion to have with your patient. However, what is more important, however, if you are predisposed, the possibility of being off of your meds, sleep deprived, hormonal changes, life normalcy changes. It will magnify, we said, between three and five times. And there’s also a lot of research going into women that have already experienced postpartum or they know they have family history of postpartum. And starting an SSRI, if they were off of it or have never been on it, it’s starting it in the third trimester. Some of the meds are safe, Zoloft and Prozac, Sirtuline, Floxetine, they are considered to be safe for pregnant women. However, a lot of women are afraid of taking those things.
Suzy Shaw: Well, it’s back to this conversation. The conversation that comes, unless you ask the question yourself, it’s the information doesn’t get trickled down to you, I think, to moms in general during that period.
Dr. Kimberly Scipione: I also think our OB-GYNs, as great as many of them can be, a lot of people go through healthcare insurance plans where it’s literally like an assembly line. You show up, the nurse will take your vitals and then you meet with the OB-GYN for three minutes and nobody’s spending time having those conversations with you.
Or the women are afraid that if they, because they usually use the PHQ-9 or the GAD-7, those are typically the scales that they use in doctor’s offices. And a lot of women are afraid or fearful that if they write the truth on those forms that either they’re not going to be taken care of or they’re going to be hospitalized or what have you. I think that that’s where the education really needs to start, when you’re lucky enough to have access to good healthcare. Not all women do.
Cheryl Bohn: I’m hearing more and more situations where the mom is being hospitalized because of some risk factors before she’s having the baby. And I can’t imagine how difficult that would be mentally to be in the hospital or in bed rest for four weeks before you even deliver. So that has to be a whole other area that would be challenging.
Dr. Kimberly Scipione: Well, yeah, and Cheryl, I think it’s, my husband might hear this, I remember when I was with my last one, I was put on bed rest for a large percentage of the pregnancy. I was very, very sick. And he’s like, “hon, I think this is great. If I was you, I would get myself a little cooler here and I’d have cold drinks and I’d just watch shows.” And I’m like, do you know what it’s like to be told that you shouldn’t get up longer than going to the bathroom? Right. I mean, this isn’t fun. And not to mention that if I’m taking a day off and it’s rainy and I’m just hanging out in my bed watching TV, that’s very different than being told you can’t stand up or you may have your baby delivered early and it might not survive or it’ll have birth defects.
Cheryl Bohn: Right. Right.
Dr. Kimberly Scipione: That’s a lot of pressure on a woman.
Suzy Shaw: Huge. Huge. So what do you think are the most misunderstood emotions around PPD?
Dr. Kimberly Scipione: Oh, for sure, the depression and anxiety. And people have to look at, and that’s something I deal with in the mental health field in my office as well. There’s this idea that if it’s not like, you know, the way movies portray it, that you’re not experiencing it. And anxiety and depression is on a continuum and anxiety and depression is personalized. So some people walk through life and they struggle most of their lives with some feelings of sadness and they’re just lower on dopamine or serotonin, right? That’s what we, that’s what we say in our field because that’s about the best information we have at this time. We’re learning a lot about the brain, neurotransmitters.
However, there’s this idea that if I’m not laying there like listless and I’m just thinking of how I want to die or I don’t have enough energy to do the basic things like bathes, that if it doesn’t look like that, that I’m not depressed. And people, I think we really need to take a good look at themselves and say, you know, based on me and how I present in the world, where am I at?
And I think that’s another thing, Suzy and Cheryl, is that a lot of women don’t have that, that meter kind of figured out prior. And so they’re, they’re not really taking a look at that. I know I experienced postpartum with a few of the kids, you know, to some degree, but I remember, you know, my husband and I were, we were in our twenties with our first child and I was very depressed and he was scared to tell me, because he’s like, he’s like, you were so emotional. I was afraid I was going to make it worse. Right.
Cheryl Bohn: I think, too, if you if you have other children, possibly you also don’t want to admit something’s wrong. You don’t want it to impact anybody else. You feel like you have to be really strong and get through it because you don’t want to negatively impact anybody around you. I think we tend to think that way as mothers and it can be so harmful to ourselves to feel that way.
Dr. Kimberly Scipione: Well, it’s very isolating. And, you know, I think about all the moms that, you know, during the COVID epidemic, too, like they were so isolated. Right. Like, like they were they were basically bubble people.
And, you know, I think that’s the one thing that in our culture and society that in America that we really lack that community piece. Right. Like other cultures and societies, when somebody has a baby, people are showing up for meals. People are offering to walk their other animals. People are offering to take care of their children, the extended families moving in and helping out. But in our culture and society, we don’t do those things. And so you have a lot of people just faking it to make it right.
Suzy Shaw: Right. Yep. Absolutely. Absolutely. And it is so overwhelming. I have never been so exhausted in my entire life as I was after those two boys that I had. And I was working. I was self-employed. And when you’re self-employed and you don’t work, we call that debt.
Dr. Kimberly Scipione: Yes. Yes.
Suzy Shaw: You know, there’s just this overwhelming pressure to continue to try to work and make money and take care of the baby and the little people in your life and your husband, who is, of course, way down there on the pecking order. So what can moms- and I recognize that PPD is much more extreme than even what I had. I was just a walking zombie. But, you know, what can you recommend to moms and when should they know when it’s time to ask for help? You know, what is that tipping point?
Dr. Kimberly Scipione: Well, I think that number one is normalizing the fact that this is going to happen. You are going to have depression. You are going to be sleep deprived. You are going to have all of these feelings and you’re not special to not have them. That this is you’re going to have them, but the continuum and the degree you have them. So I think that’s number one.
Number two, I think what would be really fantastic is if the if the OBGYN offices are using those GAD-7s and the PHQ-9s, that they’re actually getting them in the very beginning and taking them every single week so that we can start to see how are they reporting out and then they have access to see where they’re at. And I think that it also would be really fantastic if partners had the ability to also, you know, say this is what I’m seeing and this is the changes I’m seeing and have that type of relationship that that doesn’t mean that you’re flawed or you’re not going to be a good mom or you aren’t currently a good mom, but you are a human with human experiences and you need support. I think we also need to really start stepping it up.
Women, there’s this great book. It’s called The Feminine Mistake, not The Feminine Mystique, The Feminine Mistake. It’s a phenomenal book, well researched, and it talks about all the women who get these advanced degrees and give up their careers to be a stay at home mom, and then they want to enter back into the workforce. And when they enter back into the workforce, it’s the other moms that are actually the ones that are causing them more distress and treating them poorly.
So with that research, I think we need to step up as women and support our friends, support our neighbors and support our community. Even when they say they don’t need it, respect boundaries clearly. But giving somebody a Door Dash gift card, that’s not invasive here. I know what it’s like to be a mom. I know what it’s like to be an aunt. I know what it’s like to watch women have children. Here’s a $100 Door Dash. Get yourself a couple of meals that you like. Right.
Suzy Shaw: Well, and that’s part of what the MOB, the Mothers of Boys, that is the community exactly that I really think as a society we need to encourage. And one of the things I hear you saying, I believe, is that women need to advocate better for ourselves, to communicate better with our family and friends and to ask for help and recognize when we need help.
Dr. Kimberly Scipione: Yes. And I want to add that being a good friend, being a good neighbor means saying to somebody, hey, I notice a change in you and I’m here to support you versus, you know, why are you acting this way? What’s going on with you? Or not even saying anything. Being able to be kind, not putting the person on the defensive, though. You don’t need to make them feel shame for being a human and having this human experience.
Cheryl Bohn: I have found that sometimes you don’t even want to say, how can I help you? Because, again, I think women want to think I can do it all. Sometimes it’s good to just do it. Just drop off the Door Dash, and not say…
Dr. Kimberly Scipione: much better help you.
Cheryl Bohn: Yeah, that that is what I’ve found.
Dr. Kimberly Scipione: Right. Like, yeah, absolutely. Like somebody like, you know, you’re somebody passes away and you’re like, “let me know if you need anything.” Well, it means a lot more for somebody to just drop something off. And in the notes, say, let me know if you need any more.
Suzy Shaw: Right. Right.
Dr. Kimberly Scipione: And I had somebody tell me once that it’s really interesting because when you do have a baby, they are so cute just to hold them and look at them like it’s just precious, right. But what we really need is somebody to come in and clean. We need somebody to come in and do our laundry. You know, we want to hold our baby.
Cheryl Bohn: Yeah. So if you aren’t bonding with your baby. Do you have any advice for women that aren’t feeling that bond?
Dr. Kimberly Scipione: Great question. I think that first of all, let’s normalize that, too. It’s not like it looks on TV. OK. And most of the times when you see mothers and babies connected and you’re seeing them out in public, those babies are around six months or older. So you’re like, why isn’t my baby responding to me? Right. And so knowing that it takes time, it is a process.
I think, you know, we have a pretty big uptake in autism and autism diagnosis. That’s all another beast of a topic. However, I think sometimes when babies aren’t connecting with mom and that attachment isn’t present, there may be something going on. And so I think that that’s where the pediatrician should really be consulted with. Like, “hey, I try to coo with my baby. I try to cuddle my baby. My baby’s like not interested and gets and fussier, and that I think that we need to take a look at that.” I think that that needs to be looked at.
And then I think also, ladies, I’m just as guilty as every one of you out there, put down the phone, put down the computers, put down the remotes and actually read to this baby, talk to this baby, connect with this baby. I see so many moms, like even like at a park and they’ll have like an infant with them because the other kids are playing and they’re spending the whole time on their phone versus looking at this little precious little creature. Right.
Suzy Shaw: That’s great. Great advice. And what therapeutic treatments have you found effective for PPD?
Dr. Kimberly Scipione: IFS, Internal Family System, Stich-Schwarz’s model is phenomenal because it really talks to the person about the parts and the different parts and what they’re experiencing within that system as they’re trying to attach to the baby.
I think also looking at attachment theories and attachment specialists, some women themselves have either an anxious attachment style, disorganized attachment style or an avoidant attachment style. And that definitely can come through with the baby.
I think also when I’ve worked with women that have had traumatic births, this is also really cool EMDR (Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing). And I’ve worked with some children that they’ve had really traumatic birth experiences and they have difficulty attaching to the parent that what we’ve done is we’ve taken kids as young as probably my youngest one was around 20 months, 24 months, and the mom tells the story of the pregnancy, the pre-pregnancy, the pregnancy, and then the difficult birth. And we’re doing EMDR and tapping on the infant as well as the mother. And that is significantly healing for both of them.
Suzy Shaw: Wow.
Dr. Kimberly Scipione: Traditional talk therapy, I have to be honest, I think it’s great for the validation piece. I think it’s really great for them to just be heard and to have that. But using those different techniques, I see a bigger neurological shift and a longer lasting impact.
Suzy Shaw: Partner, male, female doesn’t really make a difference. How can a partner support this process of postpartum depression?
Dr. Kimberly Scipione: I’m going to give you a personal story. So with my first daughter, my milk, I didn’t make a lot of breast milk. And I remember my husband saying that his secretary’s daughter, who was 19, had had a baby at 19. “She had so much milk. I don’t understand why you don’t have a lot of milk.” And I just was like, what? And so I think rule number one, partners, everybody is different. Everybody is different. Every birth is going to be different. I hear that a lot, too.
I had a couple in here the other day. She’s four months pregnant. And the husband’s like, well, you were, you know, this is their fourth child. And, you know, in the last pregnancy, you were just so different. And I said, that was five years ago. She’s 40 now. It makes a huge difference. And really saying to those partners, every pregnancy is different. Every baby is different. Every experience is different. You may have a barometer of what it might look like, but it is going to be different. And I think really saying that every experience is going to be different.
And so saying to that partner point blank, that what you observe and what you experience needs to be looked at as a new beginning. And it’s also a variance of what I normally see? And how do you communicate? I’m concerned versus why don’t you make enough milk? Why are you so tired this pregnancy? Because that feels really shameful and it feels really judgmental. And it doesn’t feel good when you’re hormonal.
Cheryl Bohn: Yeah, or comparing your partner to someone else.
Dr. Kimberly Scipione: Yes, a 19 year old.
Cheryl Bohn: Yeah. Or comparing it to a previous pregnancy, like you said.
Dr. Kimberly Scipione: Yes. And they’re all different. And just like all babies are different.
Cheryl Bohn: So this is sort of a big question, but if there was one thing you could change about how we talk about motherhood and mental health, what would that be?
Dr. Kimberly Scipione: I think the one thing is normalizing that over and over again.
Cheryl Bohn: I think that’s huge.
Dr. Kimberly Scipione: And I and I as much as some of these cute TikTok are and as cute as some of these Instagrams are, stay off of that, please. You know, I tell this funny story that, you know, people are like, everybody else seems to have it together and I don’t. And, you know, client confidentiality, clearly. However, I will tell you that some of the most chaotic, struggling, mentally ill families that I’ve worked with, and then they send me these Christmas cards. And it’s like, I know all the information and these Christmas cards are in no way reflective. They are reflective for about three minutes of the whole year. And so one of the things is stay off of that.
And if you don’t have friendships and a community with people that can be raw and honest and genuine, find a new one. The people that act like they have it all together, I am telling you, they are the most chaotic ones you will find.
Cheryl Bohn: So, you know, I have I have some friends that they’re when they go to the doctor and they’re asked those questions about feeling depressed, they might want to communicate it that they are, but they’re afraid to because they’re afraid they’re going to have it on the record forever. I have I’ve heard that multiple times from many people that I don’t want this on my record forever and that they’re going to keep asking me about it. Do you have any advice for that?
Dr. Kimberly Scipione: Well, I think that there’s a lot of truth and validity in that. I think that insurance and that’s one of the main reasons I do not take insurance in my private practice, because I do some clinical work for a company out of California, I am telling you, they do get access to those things.
So, I think in the perfect world all women should have to see a therapist postpartum at least three times from birth within the first three months of the baby’s life. I think that would be huge and valuable. And I think that the diagnosis should be adjustment disorder, which is like having a mental health flu because you are adjusting. It’s not a lie. It’s the truth. And if insurance companies see that adjustment disorder, they usually don’t think twice about it. It’s a flu. Right. And you can have that for up to six months.
I think the words they use should be what they say. So being specific with the words. So I’m feeling a loss of energy. I’m feeling a real exhaustion. I’m feeling fatigued. I’m not as peppy as I used to be. I’m having a difficult time doing the things I once did versus I’m very depressed. I’m very sad. I don’t like this life anymore. So you hear the difference in the wording.
Cheryl Bohn: Yeah. Very good advice.
Dr. Kimberly Scipione: Yeah. And those are the words the women should be using because if that implies those other words, the first set of words, vocabulary terms, that implies a hormonal change, not a mental health illness.
Suzy Shaw: Well, also, then we’re not self-diagnosing, right?
Dr. Kimberly Scipione: Correct.
Suzy Shaw: I mean, we’re not the expert. The doctor is the expert, so don’t diagnose yourself, right? Let the professionals diagnose you.
Dr. Kimberly Scipione: Right. Instead of saying, I think I have insomnia, you say, I find that I don’t sleep as well as I used to. OK. Right. You see. And so, you know, along those lines, looking for words to describe how you’re feeling rather than giving it a label. Does that help?
Cheryl Bohn: That’s great advice.
Suzy Shaw: Yeah. Wonderful advice.
Dr. Kimberly Scipione: I have colleagues that probably would disagree with me, but I’ve I’ve I’ve seen the other side of things and I’m very raw and open with my patients.
Cheryl Bohn: Yes, I would also really love to advocate for those that- postpartum therapy for everyone, to normalize it. And it’s just part of your follow up with your pediatrician or your, you know, your.
Dr. Kimberly Scipione: Yeah, I mean, like there’s EPA services for work. Why can’t there be postpartum for all women that they just have these three sessions and that it be a requirement that they meet with somebody just for three sessions, just to talk about what they’re experiencing and that the women that do this, that they’re you know what they have to provide to the insurance company is very basic, like completing that PHQ-9, completing that GAD-7 and saying, yes, they are sleep deprived because they have a newborn baby.
Suzy Shaw: So Dr. Kim, we ask all of our guests to share a mantra or saying that mom can say to herself as she’s experiencing the topic, which today is postpartum depression. So what is it that you offer to your patients that you counsel on this topic or do you have a mantra?
Dr. Kimberly Scipione: Well, I think that we’re going to stick with this very basic one, “that everything I’m experiencing is normal and it’s OK.” Everything I’m experiencing is normal and it’s OK.
Suzy Shaw: Right. Yeah.
Cheryl Bohn: This has been a really important conversation. And I feel like you’ve just provided us with so much insight and knowledge and helpful tips for navigating the postpartum time in a mother’s life. So thank you for this wonderful time together today.
Dr. Kimberly Scipione: Absolutely. My pleasure.
Suzy Shaw: Yeah, we really appreciate it.
Cheryl Bohn: And thank you all for joining us today. Follow the MOB on Facebook, Instagram, YouTube and your favorite podcast platform. Be kind to yourselves, moms, and have a great week.
